General Comments

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 1998 23:59:02 -0700 (PDT)
From: "R. Dane Burns"
Subject: Re: 9x23 Cal.

On Sat, 5 Sep 1998, cwm wrote:

> I have a chance to pick up a new Springfield Armory M1911 in 9x23 Cal. The
> price is right (under $400.)

Good price for a Springfield 9x23. The only company BTW at the moment making production 9x23s in a single stack. The rest of the single stacks are custom guns AFAIK. STI and SVI will do it in a double wide, I think. Of course any of us custom guys will too. A caution though on the guns in 9x23...they do not work exactly like a regular 38 Super unless you are shooting major in 38 Super. This cartridge in factory form is about as much as you really want to put in a 1911 in my opinion. Make sure if you do have a custom gun or a conversion done, have it done by someone who has experience with the cartridge. It will pay long term dividends IMO. We know your feelings about buying Colt, but the run of Colts were all "enhanced" models anyway. I like the Springfield model better. Too bad Colt doesn't do a 1991A1 in 9x23/38 Super. It would be a GREAT gun. Everyone give Colt a call! Tell them so! The other gun I asked Springfield about is the FBI model in 9x23. The gun the FBI should have bought IMO. Second best and doing just fine though is the 45 ACP.

Also, any 38 Super or 9mm in a 1911 can be converted to 9x23. I have done a bunch of the Springfield 9mm conversions to 9x23.

Performance is equal to or better than the 357 Mag. John Ricco is now loading commercially a 147 gr xpt @ 1400fps and three or four other loads. Also Speer is thinking about doing 135 gr Gold Dot sized to .355 from the 357 mag. Hornaday is thinking of resizing .357 bullets for the 9x23. If that happens it will give the 9x23 a boost in components that will be even better. Winchester Silvertips and softpoint white box are very good ammo and the white box is an exceptional deal. Loaded at major 124gr @ 1450+ with the best brass of the cal, Winchester. The 9mm SuperComp from Starline is made within Ricco's original specs but it does not last as long. 9x23 Largo from CCI is great practice and throw away ammo, loaded to hot 9mm specs.

> Does anyone have any experience with this Cal. from SA? Comments on 9x23 in
> terms of performance etc.?
> Are reloading dies available for it?

Dies are available from RCBS. The case is the strongest case ever built for a centerfire hand gun. It helps to lube when you reload.

Winchester has published reload data, and so does CP Bullets. Most of the Open guys in USPSA shoot some form of rimless 38 Super, not 9x23, which is the big reason that the cartridge has not been the commercial success that it should be. Winchester marketed it to the competitive shooters and they didn't recognize the advantages and the brass price was excessive. Reloading data IS NOT interchangeable between the two. The 9x23 has less case capacity and works at much higher pressures. The case is built to take major loads in a 115 gr bullet without a supported barrel...SAFELY. It does that very well. NO WAY will any other case take that pressure safely.

In my opinion, it's a self defense cartridge, not a competition cartridge.

Dillion told me at one time they would NEVER carry 9x23 because they got stuck with the 9x25 and 9x21. Seems lots of people in the business are very leery of the cartridge and it still gains ground every day, anyway.

Why? Because it's a great round for self defense, it works better than a 45 ACP in a 1911, and it gives you 11 rds in a flush mag. Saying it works better is saying a LOT!

I have guns in both calibers, 45 and 9x23. I have been shooting 9x23 since you only had chopped 223 brass to use (9mm Super Cooper). I carried a 45 for years. I seldom shoot them now. IMO the 9x23 is a better mouse trap for many reasons in a 1911. Start with more energy, easier to shoot, and even with Win. brass, lots cheaper to shoot, kinda a big deal if you shoot a lot.

The down side? At the moment the bullets don't take advantage of the cart. If you shoot hot light bullets, barrel wear is pretty high. You can argue the caliber program all day but no one seems to think that the 125 gr @ 1450 fps in a 357 mag is a wimp load. You get 11 of them in a 9x23 1911 and the are unreasonably reliable! And it's extremely accurate and MUCH easier to shoot than any 357 mag revolver.

It ain't JUST for the gamers in Enhanced Division. Those guys shoot Supers. I figure martial artists shoot 9x23. :-)


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